Do I have what it takes? That is the essential question that kids will ask themselves. It is the question that us dads ask ourselves. How do you answer that question? How do you know?
John Beede, a legendary mountain climber, joins me on the podcast to talk about his journey up Mount Everest and the discoveries made during the journey that influence young men today. He shares about the importance of a “rite of passage” and how it is missing in lives of many young boys today.
[00:03:00] [00:02:00] [00:01:00] [00:00:00]Mike: [00:03:34] on the podcast, we have a mountain climber, a Mount Everest summiting mountain climber. John BD is on the two set dad podcast today. I’m super excited to talk to you and hear your stories, John.
Thanks for being on, man. Mike
John: [00:03:48] also happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah. And I
Mike: [00:03:51] know you’ve got an upcoming book coming out called the warrior challenge, you know, eight steps for ’em. Becoming a true warrior that’s, that’s aimed at, young [00:04:00] boys. And, yeah, but, and we’ve talked about that a little bit, but I’m just excited to hear some stories, man, that, you know, you’ve done quite a bit.
And, you know, maybe, maybe give a little background for, for the listeners on, on how you came to, to climb Mount Everest.
John: [00:04:13] Sure. So not only Everest, but I’ve climbed the tallest mountain on every continent have traveled to, I think it’s at 67 countries now. It’s an only, so often it actually kind of like sit down and add them up.
and I’ve been kite surfing on every major ocean. so I’ve had some adventures that’s for sure not to, to fund all of this. I’ve been giving professional keynote speeches to now call almost like just short of 1 million live audience members in 48 States, six continents or six countries on six continents.
So that’s my. That’s who I am. That’s
Mike: [00:04:47] awesome. That’s amazing. I knew some of those facts that I was gonna say those before the interview started. I’m like, I’m probably going to miss a few anyways. So I see John get, fill in the gap. Oh
John: [00:04:57] good. There you go. There you go. That’s it.
[00:05:00] Mike: [00:05:00] So w which was the first mountain you climb?
Tell me about like, take me back to how you got started doing this man and like,
John: [00:05:07] Oh, okay. So I was a boy scout. Eagle scout and would teach rock climbing, you know, just up 30, 40 foot tiny walls in Washington state. where I went to the summer camp in 2004, my buddy rings me up and says, I’m in university now.
And he’s like, Hey, if you want, I’m going to climb the grand Teton. Do you want to go with me? And we were dirt bag. Poor had no money, had no equipment. And we’re like, yeah, sure. And I’m thinking like, I’m an instructor I’ve got, there’s no problem. So we, we roll up, we get to the trail head at 10:00 PM and we don’t, we can’t afford a tent.
So we decided we’re going to do it all in one day. Most people do it in three days. We were like, we’re going to just go do it in one shot because tents are too expensive. We don’t have. Proper gear. Like we call them, cams and quick draws the equipment [00:06:00] to secure your rope into the cliff. Well, all we had was a rope.
We said, okay, here’s the plan? Here’s the plan. If one person falls. While that person is falling. The other person needs to jump over a rock so that we pendulum swing and both of us were like, yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Well that’s how we’re going to climb this thing.
Mike: [00:06:21] That’s good. Sounds like a plan.
John: [00:06:24] Yeah.
Why not? So like out of complete moron, stupidity, and total disregard for anything safety, somehow we made it up, got back down and like on the way back down word. Somehow got out and people were going, are you to the idiots that were like, did it in one shot and didn’t use like any gear? Yeah. That was us thinking.
We’re all cool. Yeah. So that was the start of it then I, but the progression forward was the exact same, but with learned lessons on each progressing lead difficult mountain. [00:07:00] So it would start with this like, so totally silly, climb in, in Wyoming. Then I went to South America, climbed the tallest mountain.
There didn’t even summit got knocked off, but learned a lot from it. Then I went and took a Denali prep course, went and climbed Denali summited, and learned from it, made a bunch of mistakes and went like that over and over and over until I had made all the mistakes possible that you could make on Everest, but I learned how to overcome them or how to handle it when situations like that came up.
and by the time that I decided, yep, I’m ready. Like, I know everything that, that Mountain’s gonna throw to me. I believed I was, I was ready for it. And I was, yeah.
Mike: [00:07:38] Yeah. And tell me about that, that process. You know, I was watching one of the speeches that you gave around, you tell a story about climbing Everest and where you’re, I think it’s like your jacket turns from like red.
To like w w black and white, you know, and I was like, and you talk about this notion of like Cocker yourself. And so tell me a little bit [00:08:00] about, as you got progressively harder, you know, what, what was going on? It’s more than just mountains at that point, right? I mean, you, you know, it’s, it’s impacting, you know, how you’re viewing your own personal identity and then obviously how you’re overcoming challenges.
So, so tell me a little bit about how that evolved. And then evolved into, obviously you share that wisdom, you know, in keynote
John: [00:08:21] speeches. Absolutely. So I never understood what my draw was to the mountains, or I couldn’t clearly articulate it until I was in my thirties. And what I now know is that it’s moving meditation and the process of climbing is not about going up.
Even though literally it is, but more important to me. It’s about going in and learning to dig out what I’ve got inside of me and put myself in progressively more difficult or challenging situations and see how much inner strength I have to draw out. Now. That’s like a [00:09:00] cool little, I don’t know, you could call it a soundbite, I guess that took a decade of mountaineering work too, to understand.
That’s why I love this because. I believe that I was made of more, but didn’t have any way to quantify it back in the day of tribal human history, we used to have these, rites of passages where a young man was given. Here’s what it takes to protect your tribe. Here’s what it takes to be a, a guy who can look after yourself.
And for better or worse, we lost those. I mean, the bad side of it was that those were abusive, trials, but the good side is that gave us the standard of here’s, what it means to be a man. And I don’t know that we have that any longer, a clear definition of here’s, what it takes, here’s what you need to do in modern contemporary culture.
And I think that I started climbing so that I could create one of these for myself. did I answer the question or did I,
Mike: [00:09:59] you’re getting, you’re [00:10:00] getting deeper. I love it early, John. well you said you created it for yourself cause you didn’t have it. That’s really interesting. And you almost discovered that you didn’t, what I’m hearing you say is you’d like discovered that you hadn’t gone through that sort of write a past and you were like creating it and then it was a journey of creating it.
And I’d like you to unpack that a little bit more because I feel like. Especially dads. And, you know, as they’re trying to raise young boys and to, to go through these rites of passages, either, either someone did go through, read a passage and they’re able to, to understand and articulate that and say, Hey, I wanna, I wanna, I want to also create those, write a pass just for my children or they didn’t.
And then they’re having to do that first themselves, or they partially did or something. So then they’re ill equipped to actually. Actually have, are, have their kids go through that. Right. You know, so I think it’s a really interesting concept. And, and I’d like to, to hear a little bit more about how that evolved and how you realize that, through the, through the [00:11:00] climbing thing, because I think.
Obviously it was a process wasn’t immediately apparent like, Oh, I got to go through to one of those. Right. A passenger’s things right now. Let’s do that next weekend. You know, it wasn’t like that, obviously, you know? So it’s like, so tell me about how you, it was like the discovery or the, you know, you said you realized that the draw to the mountains was that, so just tell me a little bit more about some of the, some of the, the ahas, you know, through that process.
So you
John: [00:11:24] mentioned in the last question, when my jacket started turning from red to gray and I didn’t go clear about what that was about. Yeah. So for, I was listening, you know, you heard the speech, but for those listening, my oxygen was leaking and eventually ran out. Each bottle is meant to last for 10 hours.
These bottles lasted me for about three hours. And what, what happened was the temperature was so cold that the O ring, which seals the, the, you know, the threads between the regulator and the bottle, became so cold that it cracked. And that little bit of that crack was causing the seeping of the [00:12:00] air.
And I couldn’t figure it out because my, you only have. 30 seconds of being able to take your gloves off and then you’re touching metal. And if you’ve ever been skiing and you’ve touched metal, like, you know that that’s not a fun experience. So I mentioned that because I was put to the face of death and immediately after that happened, I came across a man who.
was left behind by his team. He was on his last breath. I was the last person to see him take a breath to my knowledge. I did everything I could to try and rescue him, but, this sent me through a deep questioning of why am I doing this?
Mike: [00:12:38] so you were just like seeing a guy die basically, is what you’re saying.
John: [00:12:42] I saw my jacket turned from red to gray. Yeah. I knew my oxygen was running out. I was continuing to climb. And then they’re on the right side of me is a guy who was on his last breath. And as far as I know, he took that last breath. When I was there with me, I tried everything I could, as I mentioned to try and save [00:13:00] him.
But that resulted after somebody and getting back down safe several months later, I wasn’t right. Like I was terrified if I had to go out in public. I remember once I was trying to hide and hand cash across the counter at a coffee shop and was trembling and couldn’t figure out why I thought somebody behind me was going to attack me.
It was post traumatic stress disorder. And so by going through the process of therapy and digging deep into this one event, it opened all these past ideas of like, why did you have to do this climbing in the first place? Well, what did it, what was it it’s going to mean to you? And how do you now choose for it to mean now five for the symptoms of PTSD any longer, which like super happy about that.
Of course it’s a much happier place to be. But that’s what it took for me to realize that it was a Rite of passage. It took this kind of, I call them, wake up, smacks every guy at some point in his life, whether it’s through a breakup, a parent passing away a traumatic event, something that happens in their [00:14:00] workplace, like as we’re seeing with like, ER, doctors, firefighters, you know, wildland firefighters, we’ve everybody, at some point faces this traumatic moment.
That kind of whacks you over the head and makes you ask what is this about for you? And the cool thing is that we eat, we all get to decide that. So that’s my roundabout answer of why I realized that these mountains were a Rite of passage because it was the process of, I’m not sure what I’m doing out here in life.
I had this traumatic smack and then through that unraveling or that therapeutic process, I figured it out. And it’s one that sits. At peace with me.
Mike: [00:14:44] So obviously that’s a, that’s a really intense way to go about that, right? Yeah.
John: [00:14:49] And not everybody needs to go through that level of intensity. Trust me.
Mike: [00:14:53] Yeah.
So that’s, I mean, I totally, I’m always like tracking like 110% with you as you’re [00:15:00] typing. Like, so tell me like, so, so tell me about how. Obviously, this is a huge problem today, right? And you have, you have almost like guys that are maybe going through life and they haven’t gone through that. And, and, and tell me about some of the symptoms that you see, or like before that, like what what’s happening, you know, if they don’t have one of these right.
Of passages and like how they can kind of seek it out and find it, or, you know, what were, what are some of the, some of the, advice that you’d give to someone that maybe is like, Maybe like a couple months before you in that whole process.
John: [00:15:35] Sure. So I think that men today result, we end up because of this lack of a clear path to it, what it is to be a man, we have two end results that are both toxic.
We’ve become on one end of the scale. Like this agro male tough guy, trying to overcompensate, you know, like getting, like trying to just puff up the chest in every situation. And [00:16:00] that hurts other people around you. That’s not the point of being a quality man. The other end of that is being a roll over pushover, nice guy that doesn’t have a backbone also destructive to yourself and to the other people around you.
So if you recognize either those in yourself, which I think we all can, I mean, I’ve been on both sides of those at some point or another. And, if you’re listening right now, like I can see like in Steve nodding in the video right here, I’m like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So if you record, if you recognize any of that in yourself, I think that seeing both the negative result, which is going to be like, we end up expressing that in numbness, numbing the pain away, nice thing, the pain away, or like, Overcompensating the pain away.
If you notice yourself doing any of those things, that’s the moment that you’re being called. And it’s not like a, [00:17:00] it’s not going to be your friend stepping up and saying, come on. Now’s your time? Like, it’s not a call to action. Like in the films, it’s a quiet whisper that comes from your heart of, Hey man, you’re made for something more.
Are you ready to step up to that light? That little nudge is that path that it’s asking you, it’s time to step up now. What do you do? Like you don’t have to climb Mount Everest. You don’t have to encounter a man on his last breath and see him pass away, but find something that’s challenging and you can do this with your son.
I know this is a dads podcast. So like talk to your son about this, say, Hey, what would it mean? For you to feel like you had done something so bad ass and awesome that you feel like you have an increased level of confidence, and this could be something in your family, like becoming an Eagle scout or like learning to throw up football 30 [00:18:00] yards.
What is it in your family that makes you feel like if you agree, your son had this and you had this that’s, this would be like another level of hell yeah. And if you can find that, that is the start of where your Rite of passage should be.
Mike: [00:18:18] Yeah. So that’s, I don’t even know where to go from that. That was really thick.
I mean, there’s a lot there. I mean, so, You said it’s not like the movies, you know, it’s not like some there’s going to be this like perfect scene.
John: [00:18:36] There’s no Obi wan Kenobi. Yeah. Are you having a
Mike: [00:18:38] beer with your buddy? And he just totally is like, yeah. I think I want to dig in on that a little bit because.
I think, you know, personally I’ve felt times where I’ve kind of gone through that. And then it’s like, you almost don’t know where to turn in terms of, you know, other fellow warriors or something to, to encourage you or say, Hey, I went through that and this is how it [00:19:00] turned out, I think. and I think that’s really important, especially for like dads that, As they’re, they’re kind of transitioning in this new phase of life.
And if they maybe have some of those incidents where they say had didn’t, I’m feeling like there’s more and now I gotta, now I gotta, you know, I have this great challenge of like raising these, these boys or, or whatever. when you have those nudges and not having a, a way to necessarily like, leverage those around you and, and maybe you don’t have the vocabulary to talk about it, or you don’t know, even, you don’t know what the next step is.
Right. And so tell me, tell me about that. Like what, that’s obviously a problem, but I, you see there’s, there’s a, there’s a, there’s an overcompensation and then a numbness that, that is, that exists maybe in the community around you. And so like they’re going to respond one way or the other. Yeah. Oh yeah. I did this.
No, no, no, no. You know, puff up the chest. I’m a badass or you say, yeah, it’s not a big deal. Just kind of put it away. You know, on the other end of the spectrum. So, you know, can you speak to that a little bit? I know there, wasn’t a clear question in there, but
[00:20:00] John: [00:19:59] that’s her conversation is ran
without making like a super big plug for the book. I do lay out the steps for here’s the, like the five components for a Rite of passage. So if any dad wants to, it’s in the very back of the appendix, like here’s how to create a Rite of passage with step by step instructions for your son or for the young man in your life.
to what you just said though. I think that because there’s not this like Obi wan Kenobi saying, Hey, here’s exactly what your Rite of passage should be in pointing at the Darth Vader of your life. And that’s who you have to defeat. And then you’ll like, when the princess, like, it’s not that clear for us, but in that case, that was his sister.
So that got all weird. I wasn’t princess, he wanted to win anyway, but anyway, back on track, I think that for guys it’s about. Vulnerability and admitting where the hurt is. And by being the one courageous enough to step up and do that, you will inadvertently [00:21:00] inspire others to do so well.
And suddenly you can all more clearly hear that little inner nudge of, Hey, like there’s more and there’s a path and you just have to be courageous enough to go after it. an example of this. My friend David flood. He’s a, he’s another speaker. You know, we all have our, like colleagues of, of professionals seasoned.
He’s another speaker. He calls me up one day and says, Hey, I was just thinking about you. Cause I’m walking through this town after giving this speech. And I feel like there’s nobody around who like understands this. Have you ever felt that way? Like he said, I don’t understand. I feel like other people don’t.
No, how lonely this is to be out here. Like you give this big speech and then you walk off stage and you just like, get on your airplane and fly home. It’s like really a contrast to have you ever felt that way? And by him opening up with that vulnerability first, he called me randomly at the most important time when I needed that conversation, I had that [00:22:00] courage to go there as well.
So by being that person who says, amen, here’s what hurts for me. Have you ever felt something similar? That’s what opens up those conversations to where it takes your crew from being this numbing or overly tough crowd to like, Hey, here’s, what’s actually going on. Here’s what’s true. And right now we are all hurting in some way in coronavirus.
Like I was thinking when I was getting ready for this, if you’re a dad out there, you’ve got a family. You’re probably going out of your mind, trying to figure out how to work and look after your kid. While the kids at home on zoom calls. Meanwhile, blown
Mike: [00:22:35] apart,
John: [00:22:38] cities are burning well, like protests and things to the ground, and everybody hates each other online.
yeah. Meanwhile, like I’m a single guy I’m here alone at my place. Like we’re all struggling in different ways, but just to admit here’s the struggle. I think that’s incredibly empowering in the end for guys. Hm.
Mike: [00:22:57] I think that’s important. In that there’s [00:23:00] the, the, the spectrum exists. So, so w you can, you can say, yeah, you need to be vulnerable. And then immediately there’s reactions that go either way, either like either it’s like, no, no, not vulnerability. Yeah. Right. John, I can admit that. I got to, I got to keep out his persona. I gotta like fake it till I make it right.
Like, I’m going to be strong or you say, yeah, The vulnerability is good, but you embrace the vulnerability and there’s never a call to actually, you know, transcend that, that vulnerability. Right. So you’re saying, Hey, to not be complacent after the vulnerability, right. It’s like,
John: [00:23:32] yes,
Mike: [00:23:33] great. There’s like a feminine side and this is where we get into like genders and stuff.
But it’s like, there’s like a feminine side that wants to comfort. And so as masculinity, this is my belief. I think what you see is there’s, there’s masculinity. That’s kind of been decreased, you know, in, in the world and the feminine has been elevated. So it’s like the vulnerability is cast aside because for the macho man, right.
Cause they’re like, nah, that’s more feminine, but holistically it’s like, yeah, they, [00:24:00] they take the vulnerability and it’s like, yeah, I’m vulnerable. And then. The, you know, the feminine side is like, yeah, that’s great. That’s fine. Let’s talk about that. Let me comfort you, which is fine. They’re just different.
They’re not, that’s not like worse or whatever, but yeah. Then you, you embrace that comfort. There’s never a charge to say, well, you actually can anymore. And you’re called to more. So let’s take them on and let’s just discuss that. And then let’s, let’s, let’s transcend that and go, go beyond it. Right.
John: [00:24:24] That is such a good distinction and question because I’m fully on board with you.
This is not a licensed to complain and whine and like sit in your pity of look at how tough things are in my life. The Mandan tribe of their like South Dakota, North Dakota area. They used to have a Rite of passage where the young man would be speared through the skin of his chest hung up drugged. And when he was dropped down, they would Trop off his finger, making him look at his finger, feeling the pain.
And they would say, yeah, he’s screaming. Yeah, of course it hurts. And [00:25:00] they would show him, teach him how to breathe through that pain. Look at his missing finger that he would hold in his other hand and say, I am bigger than this pain. There’s more inside of me than what hurts. And I’m now the kind of guy who knows that, no matter how tough the situation I have, what it takes to overcome, that’s what mountaineering was for me.
It was this like, Oh my gosh, everything’s so painful. These mountains. Aren’t like, sometimes they’re not fun. You’re just slogging through the darkness. And one o’clock in the morning I saw around you, it was the same thing. And it’s. I mean without losing a finger, thankfully I didn’t freeze off. It was this like looking deep into myself.
Do I have what it is? It takes to overcome whatever the world can throw at me. And that’s the same point of a Rite of passage for, for you listening for your son, for the young man in your life. It’s can you handle the challenges that come up and society have right now and [00:26:00] improve, improve the world and uplift others by acknowledging that the yeah.
There’s pain. But you have proven already to yourself that you can get past it.
Mike: [00:26:09] Yeah. So tell me a little bit about the, that’s sort of super fascinating about the Indian tribe, by the way. So, so they just, they just lose a finger then they just that’s the
John: [00:26:18] that’s what happened to her after being feared through the skin of their chest and hung up overnight, like, like suspended by the skin drugged.
Drop down, chop off their finger and then they’d whip them and they’d have to run around the village. And this was their Rite of passage for becoming a man. Wow. It’s been stopped, but that, that was what they had to do. Wow.
Mike: [00:26:42] So tell me about the five steps that you proposed.
John: [00:26:49] Yeah, absolutely. So the first one is what I mentioned and that’s two. find something that’s challenging, but still within reach. Right? Like if it’s so hard that you’re like, there’s [00:27:00] no way possible that I could ever do it, then all it is is a formula for being deflated. So that’s step one, step number two, does it has to be relevant like right now, if Mike, you had your finger chopped off, you’d be like, that was ridiculous.
I just lost my finger for no reason. Back then they had. Bison that would spear them. So they had to learn how to overcome the pain of being speared. That’s why that like spearing through the skin happened so that if the village was ever being attacked, they would know like, Hey, I’m not scared of this thing.
Cause I know what it’s like to be speared as though a bison were going to spear me. So you got to come up with something that’s like relevant to you and your world today. purposeful the, it has to be something that you have a question of. What’s going to be answered by doing this. Like it has to have a point.
What is it within you that you feel calling at you you’d like to bring out that’s third, fourth is guided. Someone should be there walking you through. It is every big climb I’ve [00:28:00] gone on. I’ve had somebody there, whether it was a friend or a paid professional guide who took me by the hand through each progressive step.
Same thing with Rite of passage is even when the. Aboriginals in Australia, sent their boys off into the desert for six months. They had a training process where there was a guide showing them all the dangers of the desert beforehand. So find somebody who’s been there before you, and if you’re a father doing this for your son, that could be you.
If you’re the father looking for the Rite of passage of your own higher professional guide, you know, if it’s like, I want to catch 10 fish, fly fishing, never been fly fishing, but there’s something about that. Go to places. There’s a guy like the greatest guy in North America. And then the last one is there’s gotta be some element of it.
That’s fun like that carries you through it. I don’t know if those last one, those like having your finger chopped off is fun for those kids or any of that process was, but now we get to choose. Right. in Vanuatu, the young men would jump off of a 100 foot tree with, [00:29:00] with vines suspended, tied around their legs and they would bungee jump.
Like that sounds fun. Like other than. Not wanting to hit the ground when they get down, but that’s, that’s like, there’s gotta be an element of, of this is awesome. I’m really enjoying this. So those are the five steps that I recommend. Yeah, go ahead. I’m basically reading straight out of the book right now.
The warrior challenge, it’s called eight quests for boys to grow up with kindness, courage, and grit. And it actually comes out tomorrow from the date that we’re recording this. So I’m super pumped.
Mike: [00:29:32] Yeah, that’s awesome. So, yeah, September 1st. So congrats, man. I really appreciate talking to you, John. I, I think this is a very important topic.
I think it’s a, for, for, I think men that haven’t gone through Rite of passage, I think it’s, it’s a really confusing topic because it’s so. in tangled with like, you know, this, this notion of like bullying or of a, you know, hazing, you know, which is typically a right of passage that a mini Rite of passage, I might say, or just [00:30:00] something difficult.
Right. And so it’s kinda like, well, that’s too hard or whatever that is, you know? It’s just a, it’s just an interesting topic because it’s like, it’s not fully understood. Right. And so it’s kind of this notion of like comfort comes in and, and totally, you know, negates these rights of passages. Right.
Because they’re, they’re very difficult and maybe they’re, they, they, they harm you in some way. Or they’re, they’re like, They’re just not like clean, right? In many senses of the
John: [00:30:30] word. Well, that, that’s why they stopped. Right. And that’s why, I mean, nobody should have to face a dead guy on the side of a mountain.
Like that was a very painful experience. and that’s what eventually led to why I wanted to write this book so that there could be a Rite of passage for young men that is not. That gruesome hazing painful experience, but still teaches. Hey, here’s how to step up as a man. Here’s how to have self-awareness.
Here’s how to set what values you have for yourself, [00:31:00] your personal boundaries. Here’s how to have grit. Here’s how to avoid toxic relationships. Here’s how to push through, when things are different Colton believe in equality and find your purpose. Those are all the things that are here for 10 to 18 year old boys.
And, I, I aim to create a Rite of passage that was in the form of a book and not of a traumatic experience.
Mike: [00:31:22] Yeah. And so you can get the book on Amazon, I assume, and other places where it was the best place to find your John
John: [00:31:28] warrior challenge, book.com is where you can get, like I said, for your, for your listeners, there’s, I’ll give us a male assigned insert to anybody there there’s a little offer for that.
as well as free samples of the audio book. chapter as well as ebook. And that’ll link you right over to Amazon. If you enter your details there, we’ll send you right to the order page. Or you could just go to Amazon and search for the warrior challenge, eight quests for boys to grow up with kindness, courage, and grit.
Mike: [00:31:57] Awesome. And we’ll link all that up in the show notes. [00:32:00] Thanks, John. I appreciate your time, man. Mike,
John: [00:32:02] thank you so much for having me on the call.
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About mike
I strive to be a good steward of all that I am blessed with. In the end it's all about the legacy that you leave. Trying to love my wife and raise kids that are grateful.
